Answers to Post Trib Struggles with Scripture
Our post-trib brothers are quick to arrive at conclusions to support their anticipation of going through “the tribulation period” (a phrase not found in scripture). The ambiguous usage of this phrase on all sides of the issue (pre-post-or mid) partly contributes to the confusion. The bible speaks of tribulation all saints will endure, and of "great tribulation" (Rv.2:22, 7:14, Mt.24:21) which is “the tribulation of those days” (Mt.24:29) or “in those days, after that tribulation”. (Mk.13:24) This ambiguity along with making light of Paul’s admonition in Rom.11:25 has resulted in their inability to rightly divide the word of truth. Technically speaking there is a pre-‘70th week’ or ‘time of Jacob’s trouble’ (Jer.30:7) rapture of the church in contrast to Israel. And of course, Israel will be in tribulation in the latter days (Dt.4:30, Lk.21:20-4) as this is the main point of “the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth”. (Rev.3:10)
So, we will address the frequent arguments posed against the pre-70th week rapture of the church in the following order.
1. “II Thessalonians 2:1-4 clearly says that the Antichrist will be revealed before the rapture.”
2. “Matthew 24:29-31 clearly says that the rapture happens after the Tribulation.”
3. John 14:1-3 a post-trib problem
4. Revelation 20:4-6 the “first” resurrection would be the 2nd resurrection if pre-trib were true.
5. I Corinthians 15:51-54 speaks of the last trump. Revelation 11:15-19 speaks of the last trump therefore, it is post trib.
6. Revelation 3:10 with Luke 21:34-6 is cited by some as proof of a pre-trib rapture. But is only local and or escaping death in the tribulation.
One of the most common failures used as a post-trib defense is in 2 Thess.2.
1. “II Thessalonians 2:1-4 clearly says that the Antichrist will be revealed before the rapture.”
This is paraded as a foolproof argument and most post-tribbers know of no possible pre-trib explanation. (Prv.18:17, 13) They are quick to point out that Paul is beseeching the Thessalonians by the rapture “by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him” v1. Followed by him stating that “the day of Christ” is not at hand but is after the falling away and the man of sin being revealed, thus conflating ‘that day’ with our gathering unto him. Peculiarly they never seem interested in why the church would be “soon shaken in mind, or be troubled” at the prospect of Jesus’ return being at hand... really! One would think the biblical response to Jesus saying “Surely I come quickly” would be “Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.” (Rev.22:20) If Jesus coming and our gathering unto him was at hand we would ‘rejoice with exceeding great joy’. This is what Paul told the Christians after revealing the rapture in 1 Thess.4 to this same church; that “ye sorrow not” and “Wherefore comfort one another with these words”. (v13,18) Jesus told the disciples to not let their hearts be troubled and proceeded to tell them of his coming again to receive them unto himself and the place prepared in the Father’s house in heaven. (Jn.14:1-3) Had they been taught by Paul a post-trib rapture, they would not be troubled or terrified that they were in the tribulation prior to Christ's return (Mt.24:6, Mk.13:7, Lk.21:9). Rather they would know to then look up, lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."(Lk.21:28) The coming of Christ would comfort them in that case. Furthermore the post-trib position would have Paul here comforting Christians with the coming of the man of sin, great tribulation, fearful sights and that the Lord delayeth his coming!
This however, is why he was beseeching them in v1 by the rapture of the church so as to comfort them. They were confused (by spirit or word or letter) that they had been cast into great tribulation and were shaken in mind and troubled. In contrast to our gathering unto him, when Paul mentions “that day” or “the day of Christ” he is referring to “that day” in 1:10. This is the 24 hour day at the return of Christ to the earth, preceded closely with events causing men's hearts to fail. (Mal.3:2, 4:5, Joel 2:31, Amos 5:18,20, Isa.13:6, 9, 13)
He comes in flaming fire taking vengeance with his mighty angels to punish with everlasting destruction (v7-9) when “he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe... in that day”. This is a 24 hour day within the 1000 year day. The manifestation of the sons of God; when the whole creation groans to be delivered “into the glorious liberty of the children of God” (Rom.8:19-21), that is the millennial day and is more than 24 hours. But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. (1 Pt.4:7) The time is at hand. (Rev. 1:3, 22:10) Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. (Phil.4:5) Behold, I come quickly. (Rev.1:1, 2:5,16,3:11,22:7,12,20) The millennial day is at hand, (2 Pt.3:7-12, 1 Thess.5:1-3) the 24 hour day of his return in wrath is not at hand. The fulness of the Gentile bride coming in (Rom.11:25-6, Eph.5:32) and the times and seasons of God beginning to restore Israel is at hand. Now is our salvation (resurrection) nearer than when we believed, that day is at hand. (Rom.13:11-14) Therefore "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."(v14)
That day, the “the day of thy power” is the millennial reign when Christ rules “in the midst of thine enemies” out of Zion (Psa.110) In “the day of the Lord” or “the day of God” “the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” and “the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up”. (2 Pt.3:7-13) This occurs at the end of the millennial day. (Rv.20:11) Likewise the resurrection of the just and the unjust are separated by 1000 years but are spoken of as occurring "in the last day". (Rev.20:4,5:11-12, Jn.6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 12:48, 5:28-9) When scripture says “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Pt.3:8, Psa.90:4) it also describes 'the' thousand year period of time with 6 references in Rev.20:1-7.
Zechariah (ch.12) refers to ‘that day’ including Daniel’s 70th week, the ‘time of Jacob’s trouble’ where “in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people” when “all the people of the earth be gathered together against it”. (v3) “In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite”; (v4) “In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David” (v8), “in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem”, “and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son”. This must be upon the Lord’s return to earth when “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” (Rev.1:7) “In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem...” (Zech.12:11) “Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations” and “his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem”. (14:3-4) “And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.” (14:9) The trigger for these events to unfold is when he that withholdeth (yes, the church is also a he) is taken out of the way (rapture of the church). The times and seasons of the beginning of this day of the Lord is as a thief and therefore “ye have no need that I write unto you”. (1 Thes.5) The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead. The mystery period related to church will end and the time of the 70th week to restore the kingdom to Israel will begin like a thief. “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6-7)
This is not proof of a post-trib rapture but proof of answering a matter before hearing it. (Prv.18:13)
2. “Matthew 24:29-31 clearly says that the rapture happens after the Tribulation.”
Oddly, there is no rapture to be found here. It is assumed and read into the text. Let me demonstrate. According to 1 Thess.4 and John 14 (which we will detail next) the rapture is when the living and dead members of the body of Christ are ‘caught up’ to meet the Lord in the air and received unto himself to be taken to the Father’s house in heaven and ever be with the Lord; where he is we shall be also. In this passage the gathering by the angels is upon the earth. Note “the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” is upon the earth. Notice how the phrase is used in Jer.49:36 “And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.” Verse 32 of the same expands the idea with this “I will scatter into all winds them that are in the utmost corners; and I will bring their calamity from all sides thereof, saith the Lord.”
The four winds are referring to all sides on the earth under heaven as is “the uttermost part of heaven” in Mark.13:27. Consider Neh.1:8-9 “Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.” “If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee”. (Dt.30:4)
The reason for the gathering is because there was a scattering, of Israel. The reason this is missed, again is ignorance of the mystery regarding the church and Israel. (Rom.11:25) Keep in memory that seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city. (Dan.9:24) Needless to say Jesus’ warnings in the Olivet discourse (Mt.24, Mk.13, Lk.21) are Jerusalem-centric. Post tribbers forget that Jews will be reading Jesus’ words. He references “abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place” “Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains”, “pray ye that your flight be not... on the sabbath day” (Ex. 31:13-17, Ezek. 20:12), “when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies”, “there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people”, “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”. So, we see the inhabitants of Jerusalem fleeing, scattered and being carried away captive into all nations like the warnings God gave to Israel in the Old Testament. (Lv.26:33, Dt.4:27, 28:64, 30:3-4, Neh.1:8, Jer.9:16, 30:10-1, Ezk.5:10, 6:8, 11:16-7, 20:12,20-3, 41-2, 28:25, 36:19,24, Dan.12:7, Jl.3:2) A fact curiously unimportant to post-tribbers, apparently uninterested in this mystery. (Rom.11:25-9)
This is why there is a gathering of the Jews (his elect Isa.45:4, 65:9, 22, Rom.11:28) to their inheritance when Christ returns. (Neh.1:8-9, Deut.30:3-4, Isa.11:11-2, Jer.23:3, 29:14, 31:8,10, 32:37, Ezk.11:17, 28:25, 34:13, 36:24, 37:21, 39:28) The living are gathered on the earth not in the air. (Ezek.20:33-8, Mt.25:32) This, by the way, is not a mystery as Paul points to in the New Testament regarding the Church and their gathering unto Christ in the air, to the place prepared in the Father’s house in heaven. How does he gather the elect Jews? Not by angels rapturing them up into the sky, as this is unequivocally demonstrated in the passages in the Old Testament above using the same language.
Angels took Lot out of Sodom, by taking him by the hand and walking him out. (Gen.19:14-6) God sent an Angel to lead Israel into the promised land. (Ex.23:20,23, 32:34, 33:2, Jdg.2:1) An angel fed Elijah to prepare him for his journey, for it was great. (1 Kin.19:5-7) Again, an angel told Elijah to arise and go unto the king. (2 Kin.1:3,15) God said “he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways”. (Psa.91:10-12) The “angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt” (Mt.2:13) And again, “go into the land of Israel”. (v20) The angel appeared and instructed the shepherds to go to Bethlehem (Lk.2:8-15) The angel came to the apostles “opened the prison doors, and brought them forth” instructing them to go. (Acts 5:18-20) The “angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south”. (Acts 8:26) The angel came and got Peter out of prison. (Acts 12:7-9) The only time we see angels actually carrying a believer is after death. (Lk.16:22) Maybe they can point to Ezekiel (chapter 8) where an apparent angel "put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven" as the elders of Judah sat before him. But this was "in the visions of God" and not bodily. Maybe the chariots and horses of fire will carry us up as Elijah? (2 Kin.2:11) But our transformed bodies that are like Christs could ascend up as did he. (Phil.3:21, Ac.1:9,11) More like Enoch who pleased God and was translated and did not see death before the wrath of the flood to come; who spake before of the coming of the Lord to the earth with his saints. (Heb.11:5, Jd.14)
We do find this however: “And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.” Isa.66:20 “Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.” Isa.49:22 “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea... and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth”. “And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod. And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.” Isa.11:11-12,15-6 “Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.” Isa.60:9 “Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Jer.31:8-9 When “the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion” “an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men”. Isa.35:8,10 “That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them. And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted. Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim. Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.” Isa.49:9-13
Clearly this is not the mystery catching up and translating his Church to the place prepared in heaven.
The gathering of Israel at the end (Ex.23:16, 34:22) of their 70th week is no minor subject:
Israel scattered around the earth in the tribulation by God (he will regather them).
Israel is regathered by Christ at the end of the tribulation when he returns.
3. John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
These verses pose a dilemma for a post trib rapture interpretation because Jesus is not supposed to come again receive the living believers with those that sleep in Jesus unto himself to be with him in the place he prepared in the Father’s house in heaven. He is supposed to only come to the earth. Thus, great effort has been employed to change the plain meaning of Christ’s words. Here are 8 possible interpretations of this passage I've seen so far, with the refutation following:
1.Christ’s Return at The Resurrection and the Post-Resurrection Appearances. see #3 for refutation
2.Christ’s Coming on the Day of Pentecost in the Person of the Holy Spirit to Receive us into the Body of Christ. Jesus went away to heaven and sent the Comforter, thus he did not come again. (Jn.16:7,10, Ac.2:33-4) Plus, John in Revelation spoke of the coming again of Christ.
3.Christ’s Coming to Believers at Death to Receive Him to Heaven. #1&3 are refuted by the fact that the coming of Christ was repeated to them after they saw the post resurrected Christ and were born again. And Peter and John's death was contrasted with his coming- thus not his coming at death. (Jn.21:18-23, Lk.24:44-8)
4.Christ’s Coming for the Church at the Pretribulation Rapture. Jn.14:1-3 matches 1 Thes.4:13-18. And the plain reading of John 14 is Christ will come again (descend from heaven) receive us (alive and remain) unto himself (caught up) and go to the Father where he prepared a place for us (ever be with the Lord). Let not your heart be troubled (comfort one another with these words).
5.Christ’s Coming immediately after the Tribulation. Does he come to earth receive us in the air to himself and return to heaven (place prepared) with us to immediately come back, or is that 2 second comings as they accuse pre-tribbers of? Some claim the place prepared is the millennial temple, except that is not the Father’s house in heaven. Since he will come as lightening (Mt.24:27, Lk.17:24) there doesn’t seem to be a lot of time or purpose to return to heaven to the place prepared in the Father’s house to again return to earth in an instant. There wouldn't be much time for the rewarding of the resurrected either. Perhaps post-tribbers can appeal to a mystery here.
6.Christ’s Coming at the Last Judgment. If you mean the White Throne Judgment then he cannot come from heaven to earth to take us to heaven because heaven and earth will pass away. (Rev.20:11, 2 Pt.3:10)
7.Christ’s Coming to a Believer at Their Salvation. Refuted by the fact that the coming of Christ was told to Peter & John after they were born again. (Lk.24:45, Jn.20:22, 21:21-3) Also, his coming is spoken of in Revelation.
8.Christ’s Ever Coming into the World and to the Church as the Risen Lord. Jesus is to come again in like manner as he left, thus not him ever coming. (Ac.1:11) He will come ‘the second time’. (Heb.9:28) Plus, he is to come and receive us unto himself and not coming again to us- in which case we wouldn't go to another location.
Lest anyone should try and drag Jesus' words into obscurity, Jesus was very clear where he was going- to the Father in heaven. (Jn.14:12,28, 16:5,7,10,16-17,17:11,13) The Father’s house was the temple. (Jn.2:14-8, Dan.5:3, Psa.27:4, Zech.8:9) But the earthly temple was a pattern of the true. “It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us”. (Heb.9:23-4) Christ is the high priest over the house of God which is in heaven. (Heb.10:21) No man cometh unto the Father in the holiest except through the veil, that is to say, the flesh of Christ who is the living way. (Heb.10:19-21, Jn.14:6) “The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven”. (Psa.11:4) John saw “the temple of God was opened in heaven”. (Rev.11:19) He saw an “angel came out of the temple which is in heaven”, heard “a great voice out of the temple of heaven” (Rv.14:17, 16:17) and when “the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:” he saw “seven angels came out of the temple” (Rev.15:5-6) Isaiah “saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.” (Isa.6:1) Moses said “Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven” (Dt.26:15) which would be “the third heaven”. (2 Cor.12:2)
4. Revelation 20:4-6 the “first” resurrection would be the 2nd resurrection if pre-trib were true.
The connection of the resurrection with the harvest is firstly seen in that Christ is the firstfruits. (1 Cor.15:22-3) Jesus said regarding his death- “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.” (Jn.12:24) Paul elaborated on this theme of resurrection harvest later in the chapter (1 Cor.15), when he said “And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.” (v37-8) And “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.” (v44).
Paul listed the 3-fold aspect of the harvest of the first resurrection with Christ as the firstfruits, they that are Christ’s at his coming, then finally the end. (v22-3) Which is to say, the firstfruits, the harvest and last the gleanings.
Firstfruits: Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: (Lev.23:10) And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. (Ex.34:22)
Harvest: (of weeks- 7 weeks of harvesting) And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field. (Ex.23:16) Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn. And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the Lord thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the Lord thy God, according as the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: (Deut.16:9-10) see Matt. 9:37-38, Lk.10:2, Jn. 4:35
Gleanings: And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. (Lev.19:9) And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God. (Lev.23:22) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands. (Dt.24:19)
The first resurrection consists of firstfruits (Christ’s resurrection), the harvest (pre-70th week rapture to heaven), gleanings (post-70th week resurrection on earth). The pre-70th week resurrection of the church was a mystery (see here & here). The resurrection at the end was not, but was known before Moses by Job. “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God”. (Job 19:25-7) Martha knew this as well before the revelation of the Church. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn.11:23-6) Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. (Ezek.37:12) This is why “By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.” (Heb.11:22) And why it was said to Daniel “But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” (Dan.12:13) They were anticipating inheriting their lot in the land of promise and wanted to be buried in the land. (Gen.47:29-31, 50:25) But being caught up to the Father’s house in heaven was not something they were even aware of, neither was the mystery of the the church.
5. I Corinthians 15:51-54 speaks of the last trump. Revelation 11:15-19 speaks of the last trump therefore, it is post trib.
We have already disposed of the misunderstanding that the last trump here is the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11. For the Lord had not yet come at the 7th trumpet but it was declared “Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come”. (Rv.11:17) The time for his coming had arrived; but he was still in heaven ready to descend (v16-7). Another disqualifier was that the angel blew that trumpet where the Lord will blow the trumpet immediately after the tribulation of those days when “the Lord shall be seen over them”. (Matt. 24:30-31, Zech.9:14-16, Rev.1:7) This would leave us with the timing of the last trump for either “they that are Christ's at his coming” or when the Lord blows the trumpet at “the end” pre- or post- Daniels 70th week. (see#4 above)
When we compare the 1 Cor.15 passage with the other last trump passage in 1 Thess. 4 we see this trump cannot be the same event as the trumpet at the end of the tribulation because it comes without signs - 5:1-3. Regarding “the coming of the Lord” he reveals “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven” (1 Thes.4:15-16) thus he is referring to “they that are Christ's at his coming”. (1 Cor.15:23) This corresponds to Jesus' statement “I will come again, and receive you unto myself”. (Jn.14:3) Paul is speaking of the resurrection in both contexts “the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (15:52) with “and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them”. (4:16-17) He continues to show that we will go “in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Jesus said this as well “I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” (Jn.14:3) The imminent nature of this can be compared as well. 1 Cor.15- Paul says "Behold, I shew you a mystery", thus not previously known or revealed. (Jn.16:12-3) “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed” (v51) “we shall be changed” (v52). And in 1 Thess.4 “we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord” (v15) “we which are alive and remain shall be caught up”. (v17) Paul continuing in chapter 5- “yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night”, without any preceding “times and the seasons”. (5:1-2)
But the main hang up here is ‘last’. Clearly there should not be any other trumps. But this is not the absolute last as there will be trumpets declaring the new moons in the millennium (Psa.81:3, Isa.66:22-3, Num.10:10) “For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob” (Psa.81:4). It would seem an excess to conclude that his people will never “Praise him with the sound of the trumpet” (Psa.150:3) again. Or “With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the Lord, the King”. (98:6) Or that his people will never return “to Jerusalem with psalteries and harps and trumpets unto the house of the Lord.” (2 Chr.20:28) As when “the Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets”. (2 Chr.29:26) God declares “In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old”. (Amos 9:11, Acts 15:16) “And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.” (Isa.16:5) We should expect they will “set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the Lord, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.” (Ezra 3:10)
Nevertheless, our post-trib brothers see this as an absolute last trumpet not last in a series. Oddly they don't see an absolute 'last day' in John7:37 but rather last in a series. (Likewise here- Jn.6:39,40,44,54) But they don’t take it as far as our post-millennial brethren who see this as the end of the (‘non-literal’) millennial period when “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Cor.15:26) They connect this with v54 “then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory” and Rev.20:14. It is fulfilled in this sense- Acts 2:16-21, Mt.2:15,17-8,23, 13:14 w/ Acts 28:25-6, Jam.2:21-3. That is, not in the literal historical sense. (How to interpret scripture.) However, since Paul is revealing a mystery here the context needs to be understood within the New Testament mystery revelation of the church. (The Mystery of the Faith- about half way down) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church regarding the last trump. (Eph.5:32) If this last trump is post-trib and not the church only then all the living Jews will be caught up and changed and not marry and bear children as in the resurrection (Lk.20:34-6). Except that they will- Isaiah 59:21, Zech 8:3-6, Isaiah 60:22, 65:20,23, Jeremiah 3:16,23:3,30: 19-20,31:27, Ezekiel 36:10-11, 37:25-26 ,47:22.
Thus, the last trump is part of the mystery of the church and when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in and the time for the beginning of Jacob’s trouble and the final week of years upon Jerusalem and the Jewish people. (Rom.11:25-8) This is imminent as we discussed. Since this last trump is imminent and “for the calling of the assembly” perhaps the previous were “for the journeying of the camps” and “the alarm of war” (Num.10:1-10, Jer.4:19) to “prepare himself to the battle” (1 Cor.14:8) Which must needs follow “the trumpet of the jubile to sound... in the day of atonement” (Lev.25:9) and “we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.” (Rom.5:11)
6. Revelation 3:10 (with Luke 21:34-6) is cited by some as proof of a pre-tribulation rapture but actually is only to one of the seven churches, not everyone. And just for protection from particular temptations in that time. Jesus did not want to take the church out of the world- Jn.17:15.
The first part of this contention is very weak since- A) These things were written to the churches- Rev.2:7, 11, 17, 29, 3:6, 13, 22. And B) The scope of the trial was “all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” not localized. Plus, immediately following Jesus informs us in V11 “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”
The second part with John 17:15 is where they could gain some traction. This is positioned as a contradiction to the idea of a Pre-trib rapture- “not that thou shouldest take them out of the world”. However, even a post-trib rapture belief is in a catching up out of the world by definition. So, this objection falls on deaf ears. Our response would be as theirs, the Lord will not take us out of the world until the end of our course. Now then, the question to be begged is this- When will this catching out of the world occur? The verse mentions escaping the “hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth”. Kept from a period of time is like being kept from winter not just the cold of winter; winter itself.
This church had been faithful and watched and were accounted worthy to escape the hour of temptation God purposed for the whole earth and all these things which shall come to pass with the beginning of sorrows until the pinnacle of the tribulation of those days and so they would escape. (Lk.21:9,36, Mt.24:29) There was a door opened before them that no man could shut; they would indeed escape. (Rev.3:8) Escape and stand before the Son when he shall appear. This is not a promise that is unconditional and related to the judgment seat of Christ before which everyone will appear regardless. (2 Cor.5:10-1, Rom.14:10-12, Jn.5:27-9) It is conditioned upon watching and praying (Lk.21:36, 1 Pt.4:7, Mk.13:33, Mt.26:41) and is given to the churches since Israel will not escape the coming time of Jacob’s trouble. (Dt.4:30, Luke 21:22-3, Zech.12:2-3, 14:2-3) They did not know whether they would be alive and remain when he came quickly, or they depart to be with Christ after finishing their course, and neither do we. These things are written unto the churches (Rv.3:13) and so we had better watch (Mk.13:33-7, 1 Pt.4:7, Jam.5:8-9). The promise of his appearing to deliver us from the wrath to come is to comfort us (1 Thes.1:10, 4:18). Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, who shall change our vile body that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body. (Tit.2:13,Phil.3:20) This hope of the coming of Christ and our resurrection when he appears is to be a helmet of salvation. (Rom.13:11-2, 1 Thes.5:8, Ac.2:26,23:6,24:15, Tit.2:13, Rom.8:23-5, Gal.5:5, Col.1:27, 1 Pt.1:3,13, 1 Jn.3:3) We are to gird up the loins of our mind, be sober, and hope to the end (1 Thes.5:8) for the grace that is to be brought unto us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, who is our life, who when he shall appear, then shall we also appear with him in glory. (1 Pt.1:13, Col.3:4, 1 Jn.3:2) The Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. (2 Thes.3:5) We can likewise be counted worthy to escape when sudden destruction breaks out upon them that dwell upon the earth as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape. (Lk.21:36, 1 Thes.5:1-3)
The “hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” was at hand and will shortly come to pass. (Rev.1:1,3, 2:5,16,3:11,22:7,12,20) To try and make this a promise of escaping death to the faithful in the tribulation would contradict those who were faithful and died in the tribulation. (Rev.6:9-11, 7:9-14, 12:11, 13:7,10, 14:12-3, 17:6, 18:24, 20:4)
(more to come, maybe- checking around for better post trib points)
